|This previously unpublished question and answer talk was given
October 2, 1980 at Sant Bani Ashram, Village 77 RB, Rajasthan,
I was just reading today in one of the books about meditation, how Kirpal had mentioned many times about correct meditation. I've heard a number of different things about the Eye Focus and other aspects of meditation. Some people say it is between and behind the eyes and during Initiation I thought it was between and behind the eyes. If You could comment on this it would be greatly helpful.
All the Saints, the Masters who have come into this world, They all have given out the same technique. [The dear ones who meditate] at the place where the Masters tell them, only they become successful.
Master Sawan Singh used to say that some people say one hundred and other people say twenty times five. Both things are one and the same. So behind the eyes or in between the two eyes - they both are the same thing.
In your private interview I touched your forehead and I told you that this is the place where you have to look. At least you should have removed your doubt, or you should have got the answer to your question. [Sant Ji chuckles]
The place is just a little bit above the center of the two eyes. You don't have to concentrate or focus your attention on the bone which is between the two eyes. You have to look a little bit above that place.
[At this point Sant Ji borrows someone's notebook and draws a picture of two eyes and marks where the Eye Center is. (See "The Father and His Children," by Alice St. John, in the December 1980 issue, page 13, paragraph 2. It was her notebook.) Everyone laughs.]
It's just like this. It's not very high; a little bit high. Are you satisfied now? [Much laughter.]
Satsangis should not have different opinions about this, because all the Masters say the same thing, that you have to concentrate between and behind your two eyebrows, which is just a little bit above the center of the two eyes.
At the time of Initiation different things are not told to different people. They all are told the same thing. What Master Sawan Singh told at the time of Initiation, Master Kirpal also said the same thing, and what Master Kirpal said, I am saying no different thing than that. Guru Arjan Dev Ji Maharaj said, "The Light is the same, the practices are the same, The Masters only change the bodies."
So always you should try to bring your attention together and you can do that only by doing the Simran, because by doing Simran our mind and soul both get concentrated and when that happens Shabd or the Sound Current pulls the soul up. Or you can even say that when you concentrate or when you bring your attention together your soul climbs on Shabd and goes back to her Real Home. Shabd has the attraction to attract or to pull the soul. Until we do complete Simran and until we concentrate and withdraw our full attention to the Eye Center, no matter if we hear the higher sounds, still that Sound will not pull us up. Concentration means withdrawal of the attention from every cell of the body starting from the feet, and retracing our attention from all over the body we have to bring our attention to the Eye Center. It means that we have to vacate our body.
Shabd is coming from neither the right side nor the left side; the Shadb is coming from above our head. But because we are in the habit of hearing the sounds from the right and left, that is why we say that the Shabd is coming from either the right or left. Since we have become extroverted from many births, we need to close our ears only because right now we are in the habit of hearing sounds from outside. But when you will start concentrating, when you will withdraw completely, then you will not even need to close your ears. Since the Shabd comes from above and in the center of the forehead, there is no question or no purpose for the ears. Kabir Sahib said, "Closing the outer doors, open your inner door."
So because we have become extroverted and we have the habit of hearing sounds from outside that is why we are told or we need to close our ears. Saints tell us how we have to close our outer ears so that we can concentrate and put all our attention at the place where They tell us, and after that we can hear the Shabd. We have to do that [while] withdrawing completely from outside.
Sant Satgurus do not mean to involve us in the meditation and keep us there all our life long without giving us anything. They tell us that if you practice the practices, which we have told you to do, correctly even for ten days, then also you can become successful.
But where are we lacking? We do not love the Master as much as we should love Him and we do not put our whole attention, all our energy, in doing the meditation as we should do. We do not withdraw from the outer movies and television and all the things which distract our attention as much as we should, and we do not withdraw from the attachments of the world as much as we should.
Many times I have said this: that many times when people go back from here they are changed so much that not only their own people but even their neighbors notice that change. And I have received many letters from non-initiates who are the neighbors of the initiates who have been here in the groups. They say that the dear one is changed. But later on what happens? When you people go and start living again in your environment, in your home, then you start accepting the color or effect of those places and you start forgetting what you have learned here.
There are many dear ones who have come here many times and they always say in their interviews that when they go back from here everything is fine, but later, when they start attending to their responsibilities and when they start living in their environment, then they start accepting the color and the effect of that environment and they lose everything. Before that they were concentrating and were doing their meditation well, but later on they forgot everything and again they felt the need to come to Rajasthan.
All the dear ones who come here, at least for once they get changed when they go back. Even if any non-initiate comes here and spends some time here, he also feels the change when he goes back.
This is my personal experience. I have seen this many times and it is very obvious from the faces of the people also. When they first come here they look different but later on when they meditate here and when they grasp what they have been given here or what they are being given here, then even their faces reflect the changes and when they go back they are completely different than when they came here. This is only because they got the gift of Spirituality while they were here.
We should try to learn a lot from this holy trip because God showered a lot of grace and He gave us this opportunity to come here. What we have to learn from this place is how to discipline ourselves and how to maintain the discipline, not only in our spiritual life but also in our day-to-day lives. Because here there is no city, there is no place where you can go for sight-seeing; there is no place where you can go and feed your mind with the enjoyments of the world. You have come here only for your spiritual upliftment and here you are taught to do all the things on time and here you are taught to be in the discipline and how to maintain the discipline. Here you people go to bed on time. You get up on time and you also come for meditation on time. It means that you are doing everything here on the schedule which we have made and everybody is trying their best to follow that schedule.
If you will learn how to remain in the discipline while you are here, then this will help you very much when you will go back to your homes. When you go back to your home if you have made the habit of doing everything on time, on the schedule, and remaining in the discipline, then you can make a schedule of your day-to-day life in which you can go to bed on time, you can get up and go to your work and meditate on time. If you follow that schedule strictly then not only in your spiritual life but also in your worldly life you can become successful.
If you make your life for once then you will never lose it. Once you develop good habits then there are no chances of losing them.
When I went on the Tour, at many places dear ones told me about good places where people go for sight-seeing. They told me that there were many good parks, many good things which we should go and see. But I told them, "You should know that I have come here only to see the dear ones, so let me do that. I am not interested in doing any other thing." I told them, "If you obey me, and if you go in your within at least for once, and see how many beautiful things God has kept there, then you will never want to do all these outer things which you even want me to do." It doesn't mean that those who have gone in their within and those who have seen all these beautiful things [inside] do not pay any attention to the outside. No. They also work outside. They do the things to earn their livelihood and they attend to all the responsibilities which they have as a human being in the world. But I mean to say that when you have come for any work you should do only that work and your attention should not be on other works.
When I was going on the world tour, in the month of May it was very hot in India, and in Delhi I saw many Westerners who had come there for sight-seeing. It was so hot there that even many Indians were dying because of that heat wave and at that time when I saw the Westerners wandering here and there, those who had come here for sight-seeing, I felt very [amused] and I even laughed at them. I told Pappu, "Look at them - see how they have left their beautiful country and beautiful [homes] and they are wandering here and there and suffering all this heat." Those people were very dirty. I don't know how many days it had been since they had taken a shower, because it was very obvious from their clothes also. But they were saying that they were tourists and they had come here for sight-seeing.
There is nothing in India which people can see. India does not have that many good roads and good things to attract the people here, because I have seen many places in the world. The only things which are worth seeing in India are the great Saints and the devotees of God, because India is well known for the rishis and munis. It is the country of the great holy people. So the only things which a person can see and benefit from in India are the Saints or the holy people. And those who come here for some other purpose, those who wander here and there on the streets in the tremendous heat and still say they have come here for enjoyment - what type of enjoyment are they getting here?
So meditate as much as possible and do Simran as much as possible. Remain in the discipline. Earn your livelihood by honest means. Make your mind pure because only a pure mind can do the meditation. Always keep your mind quiet because only a quiet mind can inspire you for meditation.
If for once your mind gets defiled by the bad smell of the pleasures then all your life long you will not be able to purify it. So always keep yourself in the refuge of the Satguru because the refuge of the Satguru is the strongest fort. If you will keep yourself in the refuge of the Satguru then He will protect you by every means. Don't understand Satguru only as a human being or the body. He comes here to protect the souls and He has been sent by God to take care of the souls.
It is like some business company which sends its sales agents and they tell us about the good qualities of their product and they tell us about the discounts and everything. They inspire us to buy the product of the company. In the same way, God sends the Saints into this world and through the Saints God tells us what are the benefits and advantages of going back to our Real Home; They tell us where we belong, and why we got separated from God, and what are the practices by which we can go back to God. They tell us all these things only because God has sent Them into this world. They always come into this world only when God sends Them to bring the souls back. They don't have any other mission in this world except for the mission of taking the souls back from this world.
The mind is such a thing which doesn't take much time to erase all our devotion, all our meditation which we have collected over a great length of time. It is like in the beginning when a child goes to school he is given a slate to write on and he takes a lot of time to write the alphabet and other things on the slate, but when he's told to erase it he doesn't take much time: it takes just a second to erase all that he has written in many hours. So in the same way, when we meditate for a couple of months, or say a couple of years, and collect some devotion, collect some meditation, and when the mind comes - and when we forget that he has come to erase all our devotion - and when we become careless and we obey him - if he inspires us towards the worldly pleasures we follow him, and if he inspires us to go away from the Master we do that. So when such a thing happens - when the mind comes and we are not aware of it, if we do not become careful - when we obey him it does not take much time to erase all our devotion and meditation which we have collected after working very hard for many days.
All the evils are in the mind and if we obey our mind it means that we are obeying the evils. Whenever you feel like sitting for meditation or whenever you think about doing meditation you should understand that this is the time when Satguru is helping us. He is being gracious on us and we should take advantage of it. When you have bad thoughts and when you are inspired to do the worldly things and the worldly pleasures, you should understand that now the mind has come. Right at that time sit for meditation and take your attention into the Light.
But what do we do when our mind inspires us to enjoy the lust? We do not see that it is going to cause us sadness, but we obey our mind and we enjoy the lust. And because there is no happiness in all these pleasures, after we have enjoyed the lust, we feel sad and we feel sorry for ourselves and then we take a vow that we will not do that again and now we will maintain a chaste life. But after some time again the mind comes and he inspires us to do that and again we are doing the same thing. Swami Ji Maharaj says that always the person says that I will not do that again, but when the mind becomes heavier on him then he doesn't remember what he had decided before and he obeys the mind and he indulges in the lust and all those things once again. So in this way a person spends all his life and gets nowhere - he is neither a chaste person nor is he a worldly person.
I don't say that married life is a bad thing. Even in married life you can maintain chastity. Maintaining chastity doesn't mean that you don't have to live in the world like the worldly people do, but the only thing which you have to do is to divert the attention of the mind.
So always keep doing your Bhajan and Simran and keep your mind pure. If you will have purity of mind only then can you progress. While you are here you should try to do Simran as much as possible and always surrender to the Satguru.
We often have thought about getting a cow or a goat for milk [at home] and didn't know how to handle the problem of male calves. I was wondering how you've been dealing with that here? Because we don't want to slaughter them. What do they do with them here?
Well, generally here we use them for plowing the fields. In your country they use machinery for doing this work, but here we use the animals.
You mean you've reached the point where you use all the male calves?
Here we use them. It doesn't matter how many we have, but we always use them.
And the goats?
We don't have any goats. [much laughter] I can tell you about the cows because I have cows here.
Along this line of animals, my daughter wanted me to ask the Master if her cat can be spayed? To prevent having so many kittens, everybody says that's what you should do. But she doesn't know about the karma.
[Sant Ji laughs very heartily.] This is something which you have to decide.
Could You tell us about when You went to see Master Sawan Singh and He asked You to wait for Your Master to come to You?
I have said a lot about this many times. You should read the magazine.
It is always said that the most beneficial time to meditate is the early hours in the morning. I was wondering if people should avoid getting jobs on night shifts when they'd be working in those hours?
You see that we have to make our schedule according to the conditions in which we are working. It is different for [different] people in the world.
It is like if there are many thorns on the way and if you want to walk on that way, what can you do? You cannot pick up the thorns, but at least you can wear very strong shoes. In the same way, you have to make your own schedule.
One who has to meditate, one who has love for the Master, it doesn't matter in what hours of the day he is working but still he will have some time for the meditation. And those who don't have to meditate, no matter if they have the early hours free, still they will not get up and they will never meditate. We need to create love and yearning in our within. If we think that we will meditate only when we don't have any obligations, only when we don't have anything to do, I will tell you that such people never meditate. Even if they don't have anything to do still they will never meditate.
Such people become lazy because when they don't work they become lazy, they do not maintain good health. But those who work hard earning their livelihood by honest means and those who have some time for meditation, they maintain good health and they also progress in their meditation.
In doing Bhajan, if your mind wanders is it all right to do Simran to bring it back?
Always you should sit for Bhajan only when your mind is quiet so that your mind may not bother you. I always remind you to keep your mind quiet. What does that mean? It means that you have to keep your mind quiet if you want to become successful in meditation. If you will remember this even when you go back to your home, you will get a lot of help.