EDITOR'S NOTE : In the Bombay programs, Sant Ji held a mid-day Satsang for westerners which Pappu translated into English, while the longer evening Satsangs, given in Punjabi, were not translated.
I'd like to thank the Master for being here -- our being here and His being here. I have a question about watching Master, or listening to the Satsang we've had every night this week. I don't understand the language, but I feel that it's most important that I sit at attention and listen to Master's every word and watch His every movement. I was wondering if this can be related to an external meditation in which I'd be sitting still focusing on the Master's face, and if He is communicating with my soul or the souls of the satsangis as we watch Him, even though we don't understand His words?
No matter how much darshan of the Perfect Master we get, even if it is more and more, still it is [never enough]. Because through His darshan Master removes the dirt of ages and ages, of birth after birth. That is why, even if we spend a lot more time in the darshan of the Master, still we will say that it is not enough.
And I will say that it is better for those people who do not understand the language to sit there and have the darshan, because they are concentrating more than those who do understand the language. Those who understand the language sometimes move to this
side or that side. Sometimes they look at their watch and see how much time is left. Sometimes they do other things, and they do not concentrate as much as the people who don't understand the language. [laughter]
So I think that it is better not to understand the language because the happiness which one gets by concentrating on the Form of the Master without understanding the language is greater than the happiness we get when we understand the language.
I am very grateful to my Supreme Father Kirpal Who also gave me such opportunities. I used to say in front of Him, «O my Beloved, it is my desire that I may sit in front of You always and see Your beautiful form.»
As far as language is concerned, it is not difficult for a perfect Master to talk with a dear one in his language, but it is not in the Will of God that the Saints and Mahatmas should perform miracles in this world. That is why they do not do that; they do not perform any miracles. Otherwise, it is not difficult for Them to talk in the language of Their disciples; They can easily do this.
In one of the earlier messages, which was published in Sant Bani Magazine , I said that the place where soul meets Oversoul, or the place where soul talks to Shabd, there no Pappu is needed for translation. [Sangat laughs] Because the soul has to talk with Shabd in her own language and there nobody's help is needed.
It depends upon the receptivity of the people. It differs from person to person. Many times in interviews dear ones say, «We don't have any questions. Please let us sit in front of You and look at You and have Your darshan.» They ask for that only because they get something from having the darshan of the Master. They enjoy looking at the Master more than they would enjoy talking with Him. Even in this group there are so many dear ones who did this. They prefer to keep quiet and have the darshan instead of talking.
If we understand the real value of darshan, and if we realize it, then every moment we can see unique and beautiful things.
I'd like to ask You a question about Simran. This morning when I was meditating, I did something different. I tried to concentrate better: I took one breath and I tried to do one Word with one breath, then let the breath out on the second Word. I tried that for a while, then afterwards I tried doing all five Words in one breath, and it wears out. [laughter] And I started visualizing waves, and I could feel Master Kirpal's presence kind of guiding me, like an orchestra conductor -- one wave after another. Is it good to do the Simran one Word for each breath? Or should you do all the five Words with each breath in and then each breath out. Or does it make any difference?
If you will remain aware of your breathing, you will never become completely successful in doing the Simran. Because if you will do the Simran breathing in and breathing out, your attention will come in when you breathe in, and when you breathe out, your attention will go out. So it will come and go and in that way you will not be able to concentrate. No matter if after some time you get some intoxication and you love to do that; still you will never become completely successful, since your attention will always go into your breathing.
Whenever you sit for meditation, forget yourself completely and concentrate at the Eye Center. Your Simran should go on happening with your tongue of thought.
Sant Ji, I read in one of Master Kirpal's books that the lower beings, the plants and animals, couldn't make karma or didn't make karma, that they're only burning off karmas in those bodies. If this is true, I don't understand what the karma is that we're all working off in our human forms. Could you explain that?
Unless we pay off the karmas, we can never finish the karmas. And they are paying off their karmas. When all their karmas get paid off, then they get the human body.
When do the karmas get made?
When they come in the human body. [Pappu explains: Before getting those lower bodies they were in the human bodies, in which they made their karmas.]
If you think about the karmas we make, if we think about all the things which we do in our day-to-day life, if we sit down patiently and think about it, we may say that it is just a little act, or a little deed. But the consequences or the result of every single karma, every single deed you do, is very severe; it is very heavy to pay.
Regarding the karmas, Master Kirpal used to often quote the story of King Nero who burned the city of Rome and was enjoying playing the flute. You see that in the city there were so many souls, so many men, women, so many lower bodies -- animals and everything. How heavy or how a hard karma he made for himself!
In the morning Satsangs we've heard about Baba Somanath's first meeting with Master Sawan Singh. I was wondering if You could talk about Your first meeting with Kirpal, what Your experience was like.
My first meeting with Master Kirpal Singh -- regarding that, everything has been published in Sant Bani Magazine and you should read that. Because it was not me who arranged that meeting: it was He Himself Who allowed me to meet Him. Because ever since my childhood I had this desire to meet the Master. I always was thinking, «Will I be that most fortunate one to meet some Master like Guru Nanak or Kabir?»
If you will read Sant Bani Magazine you will come to know how long the preparation was, and how long the yearning was there in my heart, and how my heart was burning and the thirst was there. And that is why Supreme Father Kirpal came down to quench my thirst; He came down to cool my heated heart.
In Mr. Oberoi's Satsang the other night, he said that a satsangi would have to answer to the Lord of Judgment if he went back to eating meat or things like that. That seemed to contradict what was in the Anurag Sagar, because that book says that Kal doesn?t have anything to do with satsangis.
It depends on the Will of the perfect Satguru. If He wants He can send the soul to the Lord of Judgment. If He wants He can forgive him.
Through the Satsangs, and even at the time of Initiation, Masters tell us that we should abstain from such things. We should not eat such things, and not do like that. Just imagine, if we will not obey the commandments of our Master, will He be pleased with us? He even gives His own earnings to the satsangi or to the child who is obeying His commandments. When He can do this, you can just imagine what else He can do when He sees anyone not obeying His commandments.
The Negative Power does not give any concession, He does not forgive any karmas which are made in this world. Either the disciple has to pay off that karma or the Master [has to].
The Lord of Judgment and the Negative Power cannot even touch the satsangis of the perfect Master, because it is a promise which They have made to the Master Saint that if They catch or if They imprison even one soul initiated by the perfect Master, the perfect Master will go and empty all the hells of the Negative Power. So that is why He never takes a chance; He never touches any satsangi of the perfect Master. And Master does not have such a Will to send his souls to the Lord of Judgment. He never sends the souls to the Lord of Judgement, because you know that if any child does not obey his father, the father does not send his child to anybody else for punishment. He himself punishes him. And the souls who do such bad karmas, Master forgives them and He does not let them go below the human body.
You know that if you transgress the laws of Nature, you must get punishment for that because you cannot challenge the laws of nature. Whatever wrong you have done in this world, you will have to suffer for that, you will have to get punishment for that. In the same way, Saints never want that in the world there should be corruption in Their name. That is why They never allow anyone to eat meat and drink wine and do such things. They want that the world should not be corrupted. Because if They allow Their satsangis to eat meat and drink wine and still say that it is good, it means that they are corrupting the whole of society. How can you follow the Master, how can you claim that you are doing the devotion of Lord and at the same time do all the things which the worldly people are doing?
You should read the book The Ocean of Love (the Anurag Sagar of Kabir) thoroughly and you will not find that it is written that Satguru sends those satsangis who eat meat and drink wine and do bad karmas to the Negative Power or to the Lord of Judgment. It is not written like this in there. It is written that Satguru never sends His disciples to the Lord of Judgment. But it does not say that He will forgive those who are eating meat and drinking wine.
What do we do when we read the banis or writings of the Masters? We do not understand the real essence as it is written there, but we twist the writings of the Master and we understand them according to our own convenience.
Master, I feel that [after] You shower grace on me my mind works extra hard. It seems like all I do is flare up and get very critical, and I feel like I'm always losing anything You give. Is that an illusion or is that the battle that we have to fight?
I have often said this, that the mind will not let any opportunity go out of his hand without utilizing it, because he is always with us.
When such an opportunity comes, when we know that the mind is going to attack us and he is going to make us lose our faith, at that time you should attack the mind. You should become careful and you should know that he is going to attack you. So at that time you should attack your mind back with your full force and with full Simran.
Master, with regards to attacking the mind, Guru Nanak said, «There is no high, no low; no good, no bad. It's all according to Your Will.» If we, like a soldier, look at the mind and attack him, You're telling us to do something, realizing that this is our karma that we have to pay off. It's a lesson in life that we have to learn. If we don't take the credit or the blame, is that neh-karma?
[Pappu: Can you simplify your question?]
Does it make karma to not take the credit or the blame for any deeds that we commit?
I will try to explain this to you giving a worldly example. Suppose there is a thief and he has stolen some things. If he does not take credit for the deed which he has done, do you think that if he is caught he is not going to get the punishment for that? In the same way, if there is a murderer who says, «I am not taking credit for the deed which I have done,» the government or the law will not forgive him: he will definitely get the punishment. So in this world, if you have done any bad deed, you will get the punishment for it; if you have done any good deed, you will get the prize for it.
Master, You have always done Your best to answer questions in relation to the disciple's relation to the living Master. I wondered if You could explain the [difference], if there is any, in the living Master's relationship to His own disciples, to the disciples of His own Master, and to the disciples of Baba Somanath Ji.
The difference is only in our understanding, because there is no difference for the Saints. They look at the souls of everyone and They know that the soul is innocent. All the bad faults or bad qualities are in the mind, and They never pay any attention to the mind. They look at the souls and there is no difference in that.
You know that the sun shines on every part of the creation. The sun never says, «I will not shine on this part or I will not shine on that religion or that community.» He does not feel any difference and that is why he gives his radiance to everyone in this world.
In the same way, for the Mahatma who has reached Sach Khand, for Him no one is different, everybody in this world is equal. The only difference is that He takes the responsibility of those dear ones whom He has initiated and He is responsible for them. And other dear ones, the other people of the creation, those who have His darshan with love, those who believe in Him, those who are praising Him, He takes responsibility for them, also. The other people -- those who do not have His darshan with faith in Him, those who do not believe in Him, or those who do not hear Him -- they also get the grace of the Master, the only difference is that the Master does not become responsible for them.
The Master always bows down to the initiates of His own Master because He sees the Form of His own Master within each of the initiates of His Master. That is why I always bow down to those who are initiated by my Master, Kirpal Singh. Kabir Sahib said that those who understand a difference between one Saint and another, they will go to hell.
I feel that You try to increase the love we have for our own Master through the love we experience from You. Is that correct?
Yes, that is true.